I honestly think it was that. A lot of songs and new characters. That's mostly it for me I guess. Plot isn't that bad for me also, but could had been better.
Hmmm... hard to say. I would say I liked it a bit more in the second one. Why, well. I really liked the new villains of this one first of all. And what is a good movie without a good one? Still, plan was a bit not that awesome (Control trough songs... sirens...) but that gave us the songs which are also quite good in my opinion. Fan service and stuff, meh. Always present.
So the villains, then? They certainly had less character than Sunset did in the first, and their plan was less cohesive (which is really saying something when compared to "Invade Equestria with an army of teenagers"). If you watch closely, they don't actually do anything toward their goal at all.
Yeah, you are right about that. And that plan... not the best of all considering they would change form into ponies once crossing the portal, making them more useless. Still, kind of everyone loved them, idk why. Maybe Sonata was the one that made that. Still, for some reason (I think the songs) I liked it more than the last one.
Well, to start with... it had better songs, more fandom shoutouts, and Sunset Shimmer was adorable. It also had a more interesting plot with better pacing, mostly due to the fact that the main characters had already been established by the first movie, which eliminated the need for lengthy introduction scenes. The villains had real power, not just manipulation and deceit. This made them more of a credible threat than Sunset was. The protagonists had believable personal struggles, which added dramatic elements that the first movie lacked. There was also the side story of Sunset Shimmer's journey of redemption, which really tied everything together.
I'd like to add onto these points, because I think they're very key to the movie as a whole. The second movie's villains were more threatening because their manipulations were harder to fight. It became less a matter of singing any old song to empower the other students and more a matter of writing the single best song possible to magically break the spell they were under. That changed things. I'm not certain the second movie was actually better, but some parts were certainly better, as I see it. Sunset Shimmer's redemption story, as well as Twilight Sparkle's performance crisis, really tied the movie together. Actually, the scene where they sort of relate to each other at night is more emotionally complicated than most scenes in MLP:FiM, period. It's the tension of having hated someone and then learning that they're a more complicated person, while simultaneously being unafraid to rely on them for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which being that the protagonist feels she must accomplish her task herself because of what is expected of her.
Oh, to count the ways... OK, deep breath! Remeber, this is my opinion, maaaaaan! The first film had a silly ticking clock element to do with the position of the moon that was rushed and forced so that the plot had some urgancy instead of simply relying on some sort of mystery or peril that exploring an alternate universe would likely aready give if framed correctly. The narrative flows far, far better. There is a constant flow of action that the Battle of the Bands competition lends to the structure of the film which makes it neater than the more nebulous 'Prom Queen' thing from the first movie. Never under-estimate pandering. While generally cringeworthy, it's still fun. Trixie is a perfect example of where pandering adds rather than subtracts. The Dazzers are a far more fun and interesting villian than Sunset Shimmer. Sunset was somewhat generic 'evil popular girl' and appeared to have no reason to break up the Mane Six. The Dazzlers had personality and some presence whenever they were onscreen. They were at least a little intimidating. Even when singing. That said, Sunset Shimmer attempting to find acceptance after attemping to turn over a new leaf is a far better direction for her character. It's interesting that it's not been easy or immediate to fit in after attempting tot take over the world. While it could habe been given a little more room to grow, what is there does give Sunset Shimmer a reason to still be hanging around. 'Awesome as I want to be' as an adorably egotistical rock tune that not only sums up Rainbow Dash perfectly but makes me squee with delight at even Pinkie piping up at the back. Even better, it suggests things about the group at the moment, hinting that Rainbow Dash has been dominating choices in the band so much that they even agreed to sing Rainbow's little theme tune. The narrative is effectively a battle between an Evil Pop Girl Group and a Rock Band. Right down to a 'Scott Pilgrim-esque' colour battle when the two do finally meet. The songs The Dazzler's sing are more than just super catchy. Each has lyrics that do genuinely sound like a malicious spell that brainwashes the students into following their whims. I mean, there's lines like "You didn't know that you fell, now that your under our spell"! That's just delightfully malicious. In a movie as packed as this, everyone has something to be doing. Rainbow and Applejack are fighting over Rainbow's percieved authority. Rarity is being shot down for having weird costume designs. Fluttershy can't get a word in edgeways. Pinkie does pinkie things because Pinkie. Twilight as a crisis of confidence.Sunset has to try and find acceptance. And Spike...is there. Because...umm. Oh! He turns up with Vinyl later I guess. That's all I can think of right now.
Better pacing, seriously? The entire middle of the film features absolutely nothing happening. All the conflicts are set up in the first act, nothing at all happens in the second, and they're all resolved in the third. Even the first movie had the common sense to add and resolve some conflicts throughout the course of the film, even if they didn't last very long. They do next to nothing until they transform, their "real power" amounts to squat. Sunset actually tried achieving her own goals before transforming, so she was a much more credible threat. I'm gonna have to ask for specifics here, how is this any different from the first? Ok now that one's totally bunk. She was already redeemed in the beginning, but her "journey" consists of nothing more than saying "Hey you guys should be friends." How did it change things? It really doesn't. What it does is keep the movie going, adding needless time and scenes where nothing is accomplished and the characters wallow in uselessness. None of it matters except to stretch the movie out to feature length, and the movie would be better off without. How does any of it even matter by the end? Does any of that stuff actually lead up to the climax? The ending would be the same either way, it's just be half an hour earlier. 1. The second movie had the exact same thing with the Final Battle. 2. As explained above, the entire second act is useless and meaningless without a single conflict added or solved, and forcing the original conflicts to simply repeat again and again without going anywhere. They don't even escalate, they stagnate. 3. X 4. Sunset actually had far more personality than the Dazzlings, and I think I can prove it. The first movie shows Sunset having unique conversations with Twilight, Fluttershy, the principals, Snips and Snails, other students, etc. She has the depth of character to give a varying range of performances because she thinks differrently of all those different characters. It really matters who she's talking to. The Dazzlings on the other hand only speak to each other for most of the film. The three of them barely have enough personality for one character, and the reason we almost never see them talking to others is because they just don't have the well-written personality to interact with others. Heck, even when we do see them talk to others, it's evident that they don't care who they're talking to. They don't have unique conversations, they just have a basic character trait and skim it when they need dialogue. Sunset was a far more well written character, and she was not what I'd call "deep". 5. Could you explain this further? I don't see anything better there. 6. Yeah, "hinting" so subtly at something that was established literally in the film's first couple scenes. 7. And? 8. Cafeteria song was better 9. This is part of the glaring pacing problem. Every one of those things you mentioned starts in the beginning and just keeps going and going and going and going all the way to the end without changing, without them trying anything different, just the same thing again and again until the end where every single conflict is resolved at once with a simple "Let's be friends!" Now these are also just my opinions, but I do try to back them up with actual scenes from the movie. I'm not saying you guys are totally wrong, but I'm not convinced yet. I encourage discussion and debate, so if you want to convince me, back up your points or contradict mine with scenes and lines from the movie! I honestly haven't seen it in a while, I wouldn't be surprised if I forgot something.
1. The way that it changed things was detailed in the sentence preceding my statement about it changing; I must refer you there. 2. You're implying that the Sunset Shimmer arc scenes in the second movie are insignificant because they don't contribute to the plot, but you're wrong on two very separate and important points, the first of which is that it does contribute to the plot (see the sequence where Sunset Shimmer helps the Mane Six swing the tide of their musical battle against the Dazzlings, which is facilitated by her change of heart, which is in turn supported by her previous scenes in the movie) and the second of which is that not all parts of a piece of art or writing is reducible to plot relevance. I cringe at the very suggestion. By that logic, George R. R. Martin is a terrible writer for introducing so many "needless" characters and scenes that do nothing to develop the largest over-arcing plot of "A Song of Ice and Fire." That's a simplistic and ultimately flawed view of both writing and art. I can't say I really know or care which movie is "better" - especially since that's such a broad qualifier - but I can't agree with such a sentiment.
Nope, it wasn't. When did I suggest that? I said nothing of the sort. The reason they're insignificant is because they don't contribute to their own aforementioned arc. More specifically, there IS no arc. She was redeemed before the movie started, and nothing that happened during the movie actually affects how her supposed "arc" ends in the climax. Unless of course, you can find me an example of one of her scenes from the movie, and demonstrate how it actually moves her "arc" forward. Don't just say it happens, show it.
Oh! Another deep breath! Yeah, I guess...But, the final battle in Rainbow Rocks has more of an impact on me. For starters, the song 'Welcome to the Show' is very enjoyable. It's something that we've lead up to as a big finish. Again, I liked The Dazzlers and this is the culminating moment for Sunset Shimmer, where she finally comes to terms with her past and helps fight back. That's pretty enjoyable. So, it's a final stand off for the fate of the easily domitable teens below. It just strikes me harder than Equestria Girls. I disagree. The characters of MLP are very enjoyable, relatable and entertaining. Just because the plot is taking a backseat, doesn't mean things aren't happening. We get character development and interaction; which is one of the show's biggest strengths. Like that chat between Twilight and Sunset. Where else have we ever just seen these two characters stuck in their utterly bizarre situations just...chat? And it's a good chat too. It's not wasted, it let's us climb in the heads of both Twilight and Sunset to get a better understanding of how they tick. I'd have loved it if it went on for longer. It shows that Sunset is genuinely changing for the better and is making the effort, despite her reputation getting in the way. So, Episode 100 didn't convince you of this? OK. Trixie didn't have to be anywhere in this movie but she turns out to be a great supporting character as she would naturally be pushed by the songs of aggression and competition pretty far to do anything to win. We know Trixie is competitive so it's a natural fit that she'd attempt to cheat somehow, letting her keep a position within the movie. On top of that, her song is really good. I don't care if you said not to talk about it, it's still a point in her favour. The Dazzlings don't speak to many other people because it's part of their characters. Sunset Shimmer had pretty much rewired the entire school to her liking as much as possible. Of course she talked to people in the school, she owned the school! She gave out orders, scratched backs and generally did whatever she wanted. The Dazzlings on the other hand not only see themselves as above the rest of the student body but they don't see themselves as equal to anyone. They still retain their singing powers, meaning that they don't have to talk to gain control of the school for their own purposes. They just sing. They don't see the students as anything other than a source of negativity to feed off of. Why would they talk to them? They already have all they want from the students of Canterlot High. All they have to do is sit back and drink in the feud. Now, you can argue that The Dazzlings aren't that fleshed out but I will defend them that their performances lend an amount of character where their dialogue doesn't quite reach. Adagio does most of the talking, her voice actor clearly having a little fun being bad. I mean, when your job is to laugh maniacally and tell people that their struggles are in vain, how can you not help but have fun doing that? Sure, I'll concede that we get very little out of Aria and Sonata but I disagree that it's wasted time. In a movie as packed as Rainbow Rocks there's inevitably things that will fall by the wayside. Still, I found the bits of their personality we do get pretty entertaining. Aria is more bratty while Sonata is a little ditzy. I disagree that simple doesn't mean bad automatically But the best characterisation is in the music they sing. These characters are Sirens! Y'know! The greek monster women that would sing to get sailors to crash on rocks? Singing is a pretty big part of their identity so ignoring them would be detrimental. So, listen to the songs they sing? Apart from being sort of like an evil Girls Aloud, The Dazzlings' songs beckon and suggest actions and thoughts to their victims. They lure and pull people to their will. And they're confident you can't do anything against it! They blatantly tell anyone listening that they are placing themselves right in charge of anyone listening. And there's nothing you can do about it. Pretty awesome for a villain, right? I really enjoyed the idea of Sunset Shimmer attempting to find acceptance after her attempt to take over the world. Having something of a brain about it's ideas and stories is something MLP attempts to do often. I'm not sure it's always enough but it does try. In this instance, we have Sunset Shimmer, who has to readjust after attempting to take over the world with Pony Magic. She's now vilified by the school and the Mane Six are the only ones who tolerate her. She's struggling to find a place in the school that will accept her after what she did. That's an interesting idea. Firstly, there's now something for Sunset Shimmer to do, as it would have been easy for her to just be friends with everyone as if nothing happened. But, no! She has to earn back trust and look for some kind of redemption in the eyes of her peers. She has to make amends and she sees fighting The Dazzlers as how she could do it. I find that very compelling. It's a very natural and clever direction for her character to go. Otherwise, she would have just been a seventh wheel in the group. Reinforcing a theme is not a bad idea. It gives a bigger understanding of how much Rainbow Dash has pulled on the others to let her show off more as well as how much her ego has gotten the best of her. All without saying a single word of dialogue. Brevity is the soul of wit and all that, whether intended by the writers or not. It's not just saying that Rainbow Dash is a show off. We know that. It demonstrates the extent it's gotten, giving basis to Applejack's accusations and outbursts. I like the theme of two genre's of music battling. It's also interesting that a Girl Pop Group was cast as 'Evil' while the bubbly Rock Band was cast as 'Good'. I remember Daniel Ingram saying that Galacon that he'd love to do more Rock songs. Maybe he's a rocker himself. Or maybe one of the writers is a rocker? Woooo! Mystery! That song is good but it's one song sat in the middle of the entire movie, making it one of the most memorable parts. I like Rock, even the far bubblier stuff the Wondercolts belt out so, I side with Rainbow Rocks. Plus, I love Villain songs and Rainbow Rocks has three No, no I strongly disagree there. For starters, let's talk structure. The first movie had two ticking clock elements that would both sort of come and go whenever the writer felt like there needed to be tension in the scene. One was the poorly explained, rushed moon thing that dictates when Twilight can come back to Equestria. The other is attempting to win Princess of the Fall Formal before Sunset Shimmer does. It's there and does dictate actions but the looming threat of both dissolves into the background so that we can focus on Twilight figuring out why her friends here are all split up. I don't get any urgency in that movie because of this. The Fall Formal just happens because the writer thinks it should. Rainbow Rocks handles it's own version of the ticking clock much better by making sure it's front and centre at all times. In fact, it's usually shoved right in Twilight's face as it's the big catalyst for her anxiety. But for the benefit of the audience, we're given the montage of how the Battle of the Bands competition is going, for example. We get the auditions, we see the various heats in montage, meaning that we're somewhat worked up on what will happen in the finals. Because now, we have that snapshot of time to show the build up. This also helps ratchet up the urgency of the groups issues within itself. They don't act on their own problems within the band because they're pre-occupied with The Dazzlers. And so, we see their bickering grow steadily worse until it comes to a head under the stage, right at the end, just as Sunset manages to pull her finger out to straighten everyone out. Which doesn't come out of nowhere. Sunset does show that she's willing to try to help her friends any time, such as when Rainbow Dash was about to reveal her magic when playing her big solo but then dives on stage to stop her. There's urgency to the action, there's motivation to help. She realises she could have done something better but she panicked. This is something that they take heed of for later, when the bickering finally get's too much and The Dazzlers can finally feed off the Wondercolt's magic. So, how's that?
Ok first off, it's The Dazzlings and The Rainbooms. It's a little hard to believe it made such an impact on you when you don't remember stuff like that... On to your points... 1. That's nice. 2. I'm not good at discerning your point when it's not spelled out. Exactly what does any of that have to do with this one being better than the previous? 3. Episode 100 was kinda *squee!* but let's not get into that. 4. So you're basically admitting they have no character, right? I mean, you didn't even try to suggest otherwise. I prefer villains with personality, but heck I much prefer Sombra to these cardboard sirens. Did you notice that nothing they do even makes sense toward achieving their goals? 5. Again, does this have to do with this thread or is it just an opinion you felt like sharing? The list is long enough without random things you happened to enjoy. But if you compared those things to relevant parts of the original, then we'd have a talking point 6. "All without saying a single word of dialogue" You're joking, right? The movie spends an ungodly amount of time TELLING us this, and the song is no exception. 7. Good for you. 8. Sigh... 9."Rainbow Rocks handles it's own version of the ticking clock much better by making sure it's front and centre at all times." I can prove that this is BS with a single question: How much time passes during the movie? "Sunset does show that she's willing to try to help her friends any time" Which again proves there was never an arc to begin with. She was totally redeemed before the movie started, and all those scenes about her changed absolutely nothing. Fact is, you can say it does this better than that all you want, but you have no grounds, no facts to back it up. I'm not just asking for baseless opinions here, I'm hoping for a discussion where we use actual events and scenes and lines from the films to make a case. So far you haven't alluded to anything from the films in a more specific sense than "The scene with these characters". If you don't want your opinions to simply be brushed off as nonsense, you need to actually support them. Lastly, I hope I don't look like an *squee!* saying all this. The truth is that I really want to enjoy this movie, to see how it improves on the first and what everyone seems to see in it. But it doesn't help me when people simply say "The songs were better" or "So much fanservice" or "Ticking clocks". I want it demonstrated that this one has more thought put into it, I want these opinions to have undeniable facts backing them up. So far the facts I see are that the Dazzlings do nothing toward their goals, Sunset goes nowhere the whole movie, and nothing at all happens in the second act that affects the third. I'm sure the movie's better than this, right...?
OK, you got me there. The Wondercolts is the football team. Fair enough. Consider my nit picked. Yep. My point is that the film feels all the stronger because of this quiet moment. It's a key scene that sends home what our two main characters are feeling. The first movie doesn't have as strong a moment in it, making it the weaker film to me. Why not? A little of that same energy being channeled by the show adds a little life into the thing. No, sweetie. I said that their personalities are 'Simple' and stressed the difference. The difference between none and simple characterisation is that all The Dazzlings get to show some characteristics. As I stressed, the film is packed with as much as they could squeeze in and a lot of The Dazzlings' actions and character moments are either moved to wherever possible or cut for time. Them's the breaks but I strongly oppose the accusation that there is none. As I attempted to convay, The Dazzlings' songs tell you plenty about the group without cluttering up the pace of the movie with dialogue. AND AGAIN, The Dazzlings as a group are characterised by their songs and actions. On that subject, The Dazzlings want to regain their powers by feeding off negative energy and the magic within the name six. They do that by throwing the dynamic of the entire school into termoil! You don't have to do anything, when the student body is more than willing to attempt anything you please if they think it will give them an edge in the competition. It's why the other bands tried sabotaging The Rainbooms durring the heats! The Dazzlers hinted and the students did what they wanted. Of course, they don't get activly involved, they have a well trained Trixie. We still have a talking point, sweetie. It's a bonefied strength of the second film that it has over the first. Both movies are character focused but I find Sunset Shimmer more interesting post-Equestria Girls, not durring for the reasons I stated. I wasn't a fan of genericly bad girl Sunset Shimmer. It doesn't strike me as a waste of time. The point is to show the group are cracking under the strain that The Dazzlings are putting them under. They are so focused on saving the day that they're neglecting their own relationship until it's too late. That's why they argue over and over. However, the song is there to add to the picture by telling us about how far Rainbow Dash is willing to go to show off. The arguing shows us that the others, especially Applejack, isn't happy with it! They're related but they're not relaying the same information. Afterall, show rather than tell. It means there's more going on than just 'Magical Saved By The Bell'. You do know that there's no such thing as true objectivism, right? Oh dear, I appear to have openned this can and look! Oh yes! It's full of worms! Oh me, oh my! That's irrelavent. You don't need to know exact dates or timeframes when all you need is the presence of a looming threat that time is slowly dragging forwards. The second movie keeps this front and centre, either through Twilight's frustration or through an actual montage. The first movie just sort of forgets these things periodically, lessening the tension felt by the Fall Formal approaching. While hardly nail-biting, tension is maintained better throughout the second movie as Twilight has no idea what to do, making it hard to predict exactly what will happen. In theory at least. I mean, do you need to know exact times to know that things are taking their toll on Frodo and Samwise? Or that Doc and Marty are really up against the odds as they race to fix time and get the Delorian powered by the lightning strike? Me saying "Sunset Shimmer is willing to help her friends at any time" isn't strictly right. She's willing but not always able. Her arc is learning to push past what others think of her as she starts off as ashamed of herself but gains confidence over the course of the movie. That's what I meant.
